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Poster: Yankee9 Date: Jun 16, 2009 12:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Why Road Trips Works

I've been collecting shows for over 20 years, and while I definitely have a much deeper appreciation for complete and whole shows, this road trips project works for me in a couple of ways:

1) I barely have any time as it is to listen to complete shows these days. Lately, I put a show on in my car, I do a hundred errands, and thus I am constantly interrupting the flow of the show. It sometimes takes me three weeks to finish a damn show these days. With Road Trips, its like listening without commiting to the whole show experience. Plus, at home, my 4 and 3 year old are not going to sit there and listen to a show in its entirety. Besides its summer, and I need to get their butts outside.

2) The price is reasonable

3) Most of the releases have featured nice upgrades to what has been circulating.....case in point..it will be really refreshing to hear parts of 6/16/74 in HDCD. What's been circulating of this show is average sounding at best.

Sure I want the whole show, but this does work IMHO

This post was modified by Yankee9 on 2009-06-16 07:47:28

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Jun 16, 2009 6:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works

Heartily agreed on number one. When I was a lad, I was all about complete shows; in fact, I was almost compulsive about listening to every note, every tuning, every "take a step back." Once I started a show, I didn’t take it off until the last note of the encore was done.

Nowadays as a fortysomething family guy, it's a different story. Virtually never do I have the 2-and-a-half to 3-and-a-half hour windows of time necessary to listen to a complete show. These days it’s all about maximizing my listening opportunities. After 27 years I no longer feel the impulse to rigidly segregate the music by date- as I mentioned yesterday I’ve got all the Tennessee Jeds, Mexicalis, and BIODTLs I’ll ever need. In a case like this one where the shows have previously circulated, I’m far more likely to purchase a “best of” compilation of 6/16 and 6/18 material than I am to shell out for either show by itself.

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: Jun 16, 2009 7:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works

You need 500 Me And My Uncles, don't you? Don't You? What about 800 Sugar Mags? I'll trade one Pride Of Cucamonga for 50 Sugar Mags, but there isn't one... til post-Jerry... ;-)

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Jun 16, 2009 7:10am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works

Europe 72, Skeleton & Roses, Steal Your Face, Reckoning & Dead Set were all compilations and always welcomed onto my stereo...so the debate (again) comes from the perspective of now, versus time gone by.

If it weren't for the Archives and other Internet sources spoiling us, there wouldn't be a debate at all. We'd be lapping up these releases with a real thirst for new material.

Face it, we're capable of acting like a bunch of pot connoisseurs.

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Poster: barongsong Date: Jun 16, 2009 8:58am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works

I think my pissyness on this not that they released these but, since these are 2 of my favorite and best recordings of 74, I'm thinking they won't release these as Full show recordings. Which I think both of these deserve because as Latvala said these were some of the best 74 recordings in the vault.
It's pretty easy to make a compilation disk from a full show or just put it on shuffle if you want a different mix of the songs and Don't want to be bothered with the entire show.
Just my 2 cents but wouldn't it be smarter in the long and short run to use Road trips to highlight the great stuff in the many incomplete or imperfect shows out there?

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Jun 16, 2009 9:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works

My guess is that they're thinking they'll have greater potential sales with this approach (since they are in this to make money after all). I can only use myself as a reference point, but I know I’ll most likely buy this release, but probably would not have if it had only been one show or the other.

I made an exception for the 2/14/68 RT but for the most part I’m just at a point where I have a hard time getting excited about single show releases of previously circulated material. Again, this is strictly my opinion but a lot of the shorter first set songs (Uncle, Jed, Mexicali, etc) from the same era simply become redundant after a point, and I don't like having to buy them over and over again to get the phat jams (like the monster Eyes>Big River from Iowa or the Other One>It’s Sin from 6/18) that really make these shows unique from one another. I’d be willing to wager this had a lot to do with the downfall of the DP series.

I’m not saying that this approach is superior to getting whole shows out; I’m just trying to put myself in Rhino’s head and figure their thinking.

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Poster: barongsong Date: Jun 16, 2009 10:05am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works

Point taken, my and many others problem is that with full shows of this quality I'd rather see them both as full releases so I could choose what to hear from it and have the road trips be a venue for all the great incomplete stuff out there. As usual Earl B. is right and I am spoiled now but if Rhino is listening: WAKE UP!! THIS IS YOUR NOT SO NEW DEMOGRAPHIC, THE SPOILED ROTTEN DEADHEAD. LIKE IT OR MOST LIKELY NOT IT'S A FACT AND WE WOULD LIKE YOU TO GET USED TO THAT.

Sorry To much of everything is just enough sometimes. I'm done now.

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Jun 16, 2009 12:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works

And I am just as spoiled in my own way- years of collecting have made me surprisingly indifferent to whole show releases (unless it's something that hasn't circulated previously or maybe a truly watershed performance like 2/14/68, which I got as much for the bonus material as anything).

Still, like you I represent a demographic. I love the music of the Grateful Dead but aquiring more of it isn't as central to my life as it once was. I want to keep supporting the release program and have dropped more than my share of coin (as my wife will tearfully attest) over the years, but I have no interest in assembling my own “best of” from a pricey 6 disc set that doubles up on seven or eight songs. A tight, affordable 3 disc package that covers as many bases as possible is much more my speed that some of the more elaborate releases like the Winterland ’73 box.

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Poster: barongsong Date: Jun 16, 2009 12:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works

Actually what I'm trying to say, and not very well I'll add, is that with what seems to be the limited, quality early material.
Doesn't it make sense to release it in full form if the recording can stand up on it's own fully and then release the stuff that has glitches somewhere, which most recordings have many, in the Road Trips format. That way you please both demographics. It actually seemed like they were doing that with the first few releases and I had no complaints but this one has me a bit puzzled I guess.

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Jun 16, 2009 12:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works

I understand where you are coming from, I just think that they are aware that (at the risk of sounding like a broken record) they may be hurting their sales by devoting disc space to yet another version of MAMU or BTW (there are like eight repeats between 6/16 and 6/18) when they could be offering another choice piece of jamming from another show.

But as Earl notes, all of this is just quibbling...compared to what used to be available, there is simply an embrassment of riches out there nowadays, whole and partial shows...

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Jun 16, 2009 3:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works

Never thought I'd find myself agreeing with a guy with the handle "Yankee" anything (huge Red Sox fan that I am) but I think you're spot on with this.

I just hapily ponied up the $20 for this latest Road Trips release and couldn't care less that it's not a complete show. I looked at the track listings, saw that they included the very best stuff from both shows (That EYES>BigRiver from Des oines is just incredible) and the bonus disc is gravy.

I rarely if ever find myself listening to complete shows, unless I'm jonesing for my "best show ever" 10/29/77 fix...so this seems just about right to me.

All I ask from Rhino is that they make every effort to make the sound on these discs as pristine as can be...if they can clean up the bugs in any way, go for it...and $20 is reasonable for all you get from the best of those 2 excellent '74 shows.

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Poster: barongsong Date: Jun 16, 2009 5:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works

Yes there are a bunch of repeats between the shows and being so close they are probably very similar. BUT from the list of contents of the new R-T cd, there are probably at least as many omissions that will probably never get the hdcd treatment now. Some of the songs you may even really want to hear that are missing include: Ramble on Rose, Must Have Been the Roses played twice but a no show on RT, Jack Straw, Row Jimmy, Loser, RUN FOR THE ROSES {wtf} are ones I noticed. Plus that they actually have 2 Eyes of the World on the cd ta boot but I'm not complaining about that.
Anyway I guess we should be happy for what we have. I'll get back into line now and go about my regular business.

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Poster: Jim F Date: Jun 16, 2009 8:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works

I was perplexed by them saying the bonus disc for this latest road trips is "packed with exceptional tracks," and then seeing Around and Around on there. Maybe it's cause I've never liked the song, or maybe it's just cause I can't imagine a 1974 version worthy of being deemed "exceptional" enough to take up space on a bonus disc. But something about that just makes me laugh. Two great shows though, and they pretty much represent the highlights of both. Still, I'm not a big fan of the Road Trips series though.

The 1968 one was great for the bonus material, but I thought the patching in Alligator>Caution totally sucked, not at all what I expected for an official release. I understand they only have so much to work with on that one, but imo Charlie Miller did a way better job with that show...

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Poster: cousinkix1953 Date: Jun 17, 2009 3:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works

"The 1968 one was great for the bonus material, but I thought the patching in Alligator>Caution totally sucked, not at all what I expected for an official release. I understand they only have so much to work with on that one, but imo Charlie Miller did a way better job with that show..."

And many more too!

I won't buy Road Trips unless they are complete or that segment is all that exists in a good quality recording from a particular date. A few of the latter are in the Vault. Rhino should put them out...

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 17, 2009 6:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works; SCB knows...

Afterall of our investigations, I thought it reminded me of the Real Anthem--you know, where you hear Pig go into a Chipmunks sounding "oooohhh nooo...." (high voice imitation there).

You guys have much more experience with CM's upgrades, but to be honest, I have found every 68-71 purchase a vast improvement over any of the best of the best versions I had in my collection.

And as for the "full shows" aspect, I do carefully collect them and store them with that in mind, but as SCB noted, some of my fav shows have some really terrible songs on them that I have just ignored over the years.

For example, the recent discussion of 4-5 and the terrible CCharlie, or 6-7 and the unreal (slow!) Sug Mags...I was just listening to 6-7 and realized I never continued past the big jam to even listen to Sug Mag...what a disaster it is.

So, I think I would be pissed if they were just "hits" from a yr or two, but have no problem with 1-3 nights being used to generate 2-3 disks...

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: Jun 17, 2009 9:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works; SCB knows...

Thank ya, thank ya... :)

Well, (I think I said this in another thread) after listening to five shows from over a 10 year span, all ending in Sugar Mag, I was having a WTF? moment. Although I still like a good Sugar Mag occasionally. The SSDD section always makes me visualize a large happy audience in front of the stage, tossing balloons and beachballs back and forth...

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 17, 2009 10:17am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works; SCB knows...

I guess we all have them: I cringe at CJones, JBGoode, and a few others for my 71 shows...and would for OMSN, USBlues for mid 70s.

Strange--I can't imagine having that response to TIIFTOO...

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Poster: Jim F Date: Jun 17, 2009 12:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works; SCB knows...

Yeah I rarely make it through a US Blues, Casey Jones, or JBGoode myself. Same for Around and Around. Plus, my friend and I have this thing where whenever we're gonna go on a long mid-70's journey, we nearly ALWAYS forward past the first 4:30 of Truckin, and the first 3:00 of Playing in the Band.

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: Jun 17, 2009 3:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works; SCB knows...

Well, um, I'm not gonna rant abt the Chuck Berry covers again, but I'm with y'all! ;-) Casey Jones I have to be in the mood for, especially the Workingman's version... so overplayed! I do like the 8/21/69 Casey Jones from the Aqua Theatre, Seattle, but that's a weird one...

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Poster: high flow Date: Jun 17, 2009 9:59am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works; SCB knows...

I said this last night at a bar we all know.....

Rhino was looking out for us on this one. Why pay $20 for 3 discs of ONE show which has some low-points?? Here, Rhino offers 3 discs for $20 bucks which contain the highest-highlights of TWO great shows!

Trimming the fat to keep the jams affordable, all the while serving prime cuts.

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Jun 17, 2009 4:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works; SCB knows...

Thanks for phrasing better in one post what I've been trying to say in my last several.

I too think Rhino was looking out for us on this one. It's simply a better bang for the buck.

Truth be told, the actual number of shows that I would rate worthy of commercial release in their entirety is probably a lot smaller than what most folks would come up with anyway.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Jun 16, 2009 4:00am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works

I agree. I thought the RT1-3, RT1-4 and RT2-2 as well as Rockin' which was essentially the same kind of release were all great. Better sound in many cases and for even RT2-2 which has a complete show, I found the extra material at the end of the first two discs and the bonus disc were where the action is. I also don't need release of whole shows if there are significant flaws in the tape. Parts of RT1-4 had to be patched with auds and that was a bit disappointing. Also the mix of complete vs. RT-type releases has been fair. Basically 2:1, RT-type:complete shows and that does not count the latter release of two of the complete shows from RT1-1 and that RT2-2 does have a complete show.

I also like the subtle change in the format of Road Trips. The first two were spliced from several shows and I think in RT1-2 there was even a false transition (kind of like LiveDead, no?). Since RT1-3 the releases are essentially one disc from one show and a second disc from the second show with bonus material from both shows as well as a few others. It works fine for me, I have most of the shows from the releases and can go back and listen to complete shows if I choose.

Finally I thought this was a good way to grow the audience, however I am not sure if they are doing that. The RT releases have been for the most part exclusive to dead.net and available in CD only. Haven't figured that out yet. Is that how you win over the kids?

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Poster: wineland Date: Jun 16, 2009 8:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works

Are the RTs available on iTunes? If so then Rhino & GD are casting a wider net to catch that younger audience.

I'm still a fan of the complete show. However, the sonic clarity wins me over when I listen to the RTs. I have the complete shows so I can always dig those out of my vaults if I even need to listen to the whole shebang.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Jun 16, 2009 8:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works

The only Rhino releases i see on the itunes music store are To Terrapin and Rockin' the Cradle. No Road trips. They don't even offer them for download on their own site. Just seems short sited to me.

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Poster: wineland Date: Jun 16, 2009 8:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works

Sam Goody and Best Buy are ok, but the trend has been to digital formats for distribution. Short sighted? Seems like they are going blind.

Regardless, I am excited to hear the June 74 shows they released. The online listening party tracks sounded very nice.
http://www.dead.net/listeningparty-rtv2-n3?cmpid=RTV2N3

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Poster: Yankee9 Date: Jun 16, 2009 5:58am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works

yeah that's a great point....by making these exculsive to dead.net, nobody really knows about them. Bizarre

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Poster: waynecs Date: Jun 17, 2009 6:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works

I've seen RTs in record stores,i don't think they are exclusive to dead.net.

As to the original post - When I'm listening to these recordings am I worrying about the fact that they aren't complete shows?F**K NO!!!I'm too busy dancing.I'll leave the concern to those far more anal than I.

This post was modified by waynecs on 2009-06-18 01:03:53

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Jun 16, 2009 6:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works

I thought some were exclusive, i am sure that the bonus discs are since you have to pre-order to get those and the third disc makes the price reasonable imo.

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Poster: Miss Divine Date: Jun 16, 2009 11:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works

I haven't seen any of the RT series in shops over here....and with the shipping being so expensive, they are a luxury for me.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Jun 17, 2009 5:58am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works

I was thinking the CD only releases were not good for kids, I hadn't even considered how restrictive they were for global sales.

I seem to recall you did purchase RT2-2 and it took like a month to arrive. If you would like RT1-3 and RT2-3 (once I receive it) let me know. I believe those would be the other two from era you listen to. Only issue is I am in the process of moving so it might not be something I can get to immediately.

Damn, I hope William doesn't think I am moving in on his girl. I might end up with an arrow in my back.....



This post was modified by elbow1126 on 2009-06-17 12:58:58

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 17, 2009 6:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works

Well, seeing as how you were ever so gently rebuffed (hmmm...gotta find a better word there), I can save my bolt this time around. But, we PMs have to be very careful with respective to our SOs...another scandal is the last thing this Administration needs (is that what we have around here? Not sure this metaphor is working).

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Jun 17, 2009 7:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works

First off, a gentle rebuffing from a woman is practically a win in my book. I got the "xx" which is far more rewarding than the usual "NO GO AWAY YOU GIVE ME THE CREEPS!!!!" response.

PMs are a shaky lot so any response should be anticipated. As a precautionary measure I have taken to walking around with an apple on my head. I think of it as a lightning rod. You won't be able to help yourself and will not aim at my person. Show off.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 17, 2009 7:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works

Yeah, shoulda changed that "rebuff" part...damn. And, don't think I didn't notice the little "xx" thingamagig...I have gotten three in a row though, and I think they were all caps, so don't go picking out any flowers or anything...

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Poster: Miss Divine Date: Jun 17, 2009 6:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works

That's very kind of you, but I have those too....and yes, they took a long time to arrive.

Thanks again.

xx

EDIT: and obviously I don't yet have RT2-3 but I have the shows involved...if that makes sense.

This post was modified by Miss Divine on 2009-06-17 13:28:46

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Jun 17, 2009 7:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works

Well if you interested in RT2-3 let me know.

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Poster: fenario80 Date: Jun 16, 2009 1:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works

I'm about 50-50 on Road Trips, literally I think I've bought about half.

Should I really buy that '68 one? I'm pretty sketchy on 60's Dead, in general. I have a lot of it, but don't know and love it the way I do 73-77, 80-82. Except for 66, for some strange reason - I do love 1966, especially the PNE shows ...

Not sure why I'm lukewarm on this new 6/16 and 06/18/74 release, either: maybe because the shows were among some 'legendary' tapes that I acquired in my childhood, and I know them inside out.

The sound quality is something else, though. I'll probably sit here at the listening party until they shut it off. Then I'll decide if I'm buying.

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Jun 16, 2009 2:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works

2/14/68 is a fat slab of primal psychedelic Dead- it's not always pretty and it's definately not for everybody, but it's an absolutely essential show for fans of the early years and/or someone interested in the evolution of the band's sound. Phil Lesh once mentioned this as one of his favorite Grateful Dead shows.

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Poster: fenario80 Date: Jun 16, 2009 2:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works

Hey I appreciate the recommendation. I've just discovered that, of course, I already have a version of this. I'm going to go home tonight and listen to Charlie Miller's board of this show and find out if I like it before I spring for the officially mastered version ... but thanks!

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Poster: headgdhead Date: Jun 17, 2009 8:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works

Here I thought I was the only one to have purchased every GD release in vinyl, 8 Track, cassette, CD, HDCD, DVD-A and DVD while at the same time snatching everything available via ftp, bittorrent and snail mail trading that I could possibly lay my hands on.

Buy it, snatch it, play it and share it. Spread the gospel brothers!

"Anything worth doing is worth doing to excess." -Edwin Land

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Poster: Death&Mercy Date: Jun 16, 2009 6:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works

I like this release, and don't need those tunes they left off.

I don't need complete shows. I have over 500.

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Poster: amosearle Date: Jun 16, 2009 9:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works

With the sound of the Eyes I just heard at the listening party, thats enough for me to agree and let the thing come to my house. I'll pay the shipping to stay out of best buy. I can't stand going inside a best buy.

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Poster: boltman Date: Jun 17, 2009 8:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Road Trips Works

I haven't been disappointed with an RT release yet. The audio quality has been particularly impressive, especially the last one. Still haven't been able to stop listening to the VLBs on it. Already ponied up and ready to listen again.

I have a large number of complete shows and just find work and family getting in the way (I really don't mean it that way) of finding the time needed to listen to a show beginning to end. Usually able to pull off a set, but even that is difficult at times. The RTs, as noted previously, fill that niche. I'm looking forward to the time when I can spend the time on full shows, but until then, Rhino will get my hard earned cash as long as they release RTs, particularly like the last two.